Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Discussions on Chinese Paladin 3 drama (prequel), starring Hu Ge 胡歌 as Jing Tian, Yang Mi 楊冪 as Tang Xue Jian, Wallace Huo 霍建華 as Xu Changqing, Tang Yan 唐嫣 as Zi Xuan and Liu Shi Shi 刘诗诗 as Long Kui.

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:46 pm

All right, thanks, the links all work now.

Okay, so for the first link of 'Fate, love and letting go', there are a few things I'd like to put in just to add a bit of credit to what I've written so that it'll correlate with the drama better.
In the essay after I wrote "Life is twisted that way," you should add this part in:

As Changqing himself stated in his letter to Jing Tian: "One must experience emotions before one is able to overcome them."
Likewise, Shenggu herself once told Zixuan: "You must go through it, before you can overcome it."


Then after the part that goes like "and through this found the strength to let go", you can just delete the "I understand her feelings for Changqing" sentence, since it's not important and not necessary.

Another change to make would be after the sentence "so another reason why I think she couldn’t let go of Changqing was because she still needed closure from what had happened in their past", the whole thing will flow better and make more sense if you add this in too:

Zixuan confided in Shenggu that she wanted to wait for Changqing to be reincarnated into his next life so she could explain to him that the person in her heart has always been him. Her exact words were, "I must make it up to him... and give him happiness."

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:45 pm

ah...lovely! I've updated the article now :D

P.S If you'd like to change the title to something that sounds better, feel free to :)
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:26 pm

Chibi Jennifer wrote:P.S If you'd like to change the title to something that sounds better, feel free to :)

Oh no, the title is fine. I don't really have anything better to name it anyways.

Ok, just got done with reading the second link and I like it the way it is. There's nothing I'd change about it, so if you've got anything you'd like to change or add to it, you're welcome to. =]

As for the third link of 'Zixuan as a Nuwa descendant', I also don't have anything to add or change about it. I still stick to what I've said about the cycle ending either way as this being the last life Zixuan gets to live, since we don't know if she could actually be reincarnated, or even if she could, if it'll be in the same time as Changqing.

And then I also wanted to clarify one thing, just in case you decided to put it on the fanlisting. On the first page of this thread where I wrote the whole paragraph that went like, "Changqing and Zixuan's third lifetime was already meant to be way different than their first and second lives because in the third life Changqing wasn't just merely leading that ordinary life of a taoist priest." -- Okay, don't put this on your fanlisting if you were planning to. I don't know what in the world I was thinking when I wrote that, but so many parts in that paragraph are wrong and don't even feel right. Although Zixuan has always wanted to help Changqing, be there by his side, and was desperate to make him stop hurting, it wasn't the mission that made her persistent third lifetime around. Anyhow, that paragraph is just horrible, so I wanted to tell you not to do anything with it.

Oh, and I saw the fourth link already and I think it's nice! Not much else I can say.

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:33 pm

haha, that's fine ^_^ Thanks for letting me know :)

I wonder what other aspects of their relationship we haven't discussed and explored about? I might write up an article on the Changging-Zi Xuan-Chong Lou story- I found it quite interested though I'm not sure what my main argument would be about..lol

I also need to write up a summary of Changqing and Zi Xuan for this page: http://undyinglove.chinesepaladin.org/a ... -paladin-3

Not sure how to keep it nice and pretty- I'm not very good at writing stuff, haha!
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:48 pm

lovelikethis wrote:Oh! Btw, I wanted to ask you about your opinion on the dreams that Changqing (and Yeping) kept having of Zixuan. I mean, how did you interpret them? j/w


This scene: http://undyinglove.chinesepaladin.org/r ... and-denial

Okay, I gotta admit I was slightly confused by the dreaming on Ye Ping's part. The first time Ye Ping got drunk and woke up in Zi Xuan's bed, he had a dream of himself seeing a young Zi Xuan wearing a mask, who takes it off and puts it on him. She then takes his hand and they start seeing everything during their first life together. Since she lead the way, my impression was that she was giving him back his memory and that he started to remember her.

However, when he wakes up he looks really confused and when Zi Xuan teases him for dreaming about her, he shakes it off rather embarrassed but doesn't consider the dream valid. Now, I'm not sure if Zi Xuan was the one giving him the dreams since she seems to know he was dreaming about her, or if she was just teasing him (and co-incidentally he was)

I don't think he really remembered or otherwise he would question her and ask her curiously if they met before (like how Changqing asked Zi Xuan) So... if Ye Ping didn't realise it was Zi Xuan and him in their first life, what actually made him yearn for her when he left? Was it that his memory was erased but his feelings weren't?
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:29 pm

Chibi Jennifer wrote:I wonder what other aspects of their relationship we haven't discussed and explored about? I might write up an article on the Changging-Zi Xuan-Chong Lou story- I found it quite interested though I'm not sure what my main argument would be about..lol

lol I thought you might have wanted to write about that. The article could just be about you explaining the significance of the role Chong Lou played in Zixuan and Changqing's story.

I also need to write up a summary of Changqing and Zi Xuan for this page: http://undyinglove.chinesepaladin.org/a ... -paladin-3

Not sure how to keep it nice and pretty- I'm not very good at writing stuff, haha!

I was wondering what you were gonna write for that page! How are you thinking of going about it?

Okay, I gotta admit I was slightly confused by the dreaming on Ye Ping's part. The first time Ye Ping got drunk and woke up in Zi Xuan's bed, he had a dream of himself seeing a young Zi Xuan wearing a mask, who takes it off and puts it on him. She then takes his hand and they start seeing everything during their first life together. Since she lead the way, my impression was that she was giving him back his memory and that he started to remember her.
However, when he wakes up he looks really confused and when Zi Xuan teases him for dreaming about her, he shakes it off rather embarrassed but doesn't consider the dream valid. Now, I'm not sure if Zi Xuan was the one giving him the dreams since she seems to know he was dreaming about her, or if she was just teasing him (and co-incidentally he was)
I don't think he really remembered or otherwise he would question her and ask her curiously if they met before (like how Changqing asked Zi Xuan) So... if Ye Ping didn't realise it was Zi Xuan and him in their first life, what actually made him yearn for her when he left? Was it that his memory was erased but his feelings weren't?


So that's how you looked at it. We're looking at it differently then. Before I write up another essay lol, let me just say that I don't believe it was Zixuan giving him the dream. I think the reason she knew he was dreaming of her was because he kept saying her name aloud as he was dreaming, and she was sitting right there next to him the whole time. As for whether or not he remembered the dream, I'm not sure about that either.
Anyhow, to return from the tangent, I've been interpreting his dreams by way of focusing on what was happening in the dreams and why. First though, I'd like to explain why I began thinking of an interpretation for his dreams. I started pondering about what his dreams might mean because time and time again, I always found them to be so fascinating, unusual, and mysterious since they had so many mystical elements that had a lot to do with Changqing's psychological and emotional states (which is what I believe is the cause of him having those dreams, and not Zixuan giving them to him). But even though I knew (and felt) that his dreams were very mystical-like, I wasn't very knowledgeable on what mysticism was lol, so I went to do some small research about mysticism, and here's something I thought corresponds very well with why I think Yeping and Changqing dreams of Zixuan (even though he may not remember their past lives together):

"Michel de Certeau's work, in the latter part of the twentieth century, has compared the procedures common to both mysticism and psychoanalysis, suggesting that the body, far from being ruled by discourse, is itself a symbolic language, and that in both psychoanalysis and mysticism the body is perceived as responsible for a truth of which it is unaware. Thus the body holds the ‘key’ to the ‘truth’ of the ‘space’ represented by the mystical or unconscious. This has caused the modern study of mysticism to focus, like psychoanalysis, on the bodily manifestations of the psyche's or soul's condition in order to understand the ‘truth’ of that condition." -- this exerpt was from http://www.answers.com/topic/mysticism
Changqing/Yeping was unaware of the 'truth' because he couldn't remember his past memories.

Why I believe that corresponds well with Yeping and Changqing's dreaming of Zixuan was because I thought it matched perfectly with what the two Taoist priests were talking about in episode 9 (with the memories being psychological and feelings being emotional, and the *body* being responsible for the 'truth' that the mind wasn't consciously aware of):

"Memories are linked together with feelings. Memories can be erased, but feelings are like the strings that control a puppet. You won't know if touching any one of them, will bring the memories out again. Feelings are fleeting like the mist. No one knows where it comes from or where it will end. But it is extremely persistent."

So... if Ye Ping didn't realise it was Zi Xuan and him in their first life, what actually made him yearn for her when he left? Was it that his memory was erased but his feelings weren't?

It was voiced in episode 18 that: "Though Lin Yeping did not go after her, since their first meeting, his heart was already with Zixuan. The more you suppress the feelings of love, the more passionate it gets. No matter how Lin Yeping tried to avoid it, he was unable to ignore the voice of his heart. Besides, it is the will of Heaven."
So... from what I gathered here, seems to me that deep inside Yeping's heart he has already loved Zixuan (from the love that was left over from his previous life as Liufang), so this was why he couldn't forget about her.
To better explain this, there's a portion of lyrics from the beautiful 'Promise to Not Love You' song that I've always associated with Changqing's circumstances involving his not being able to remember who Zixuan was. From my perspective, these lyrics fit perfectly with why Yeping's heart was already with Zixuan since their first meeting and why he starts yearning for her:

"I haven’t had the time to feel sadness. [because he doesn't remember her, making it easier to disregard her]
Love has made its way into my breath. [because she reappeared in his life and tried to get him back]
What doesn’t exist, exists at the bottom of the heart. [he was always loving her even though he didn't know it and doesn't remember her]"

By the way, the last line totally represents my reason as to why Yeping & Changqing dreamed about her.
In the second and third lifetimes, although he couldn't remember her and she didn't exist to him, she exists at the bottom of his heart. He doesn't know but she holds a very special place there (the place in his heart that represents his greatest happiness); however, it's a lonely, forgetful place that can only be touched and slightly recalled whenever Zixuan appears. And so her reappearances triggers him to have those dreams.

Okay, now back to my interpretation of Yeping and Changqing's dreams. I found it so interesting how in both of his dreams as Yeping and Changqing, he always goes back to the same spot that he and Zixuan first met (which was the night of the Lantern Festival). When I think about this, it's actually really sad for me because I think I know why he always returns to this place, but it's too hard to explain with words so I won't. So, when not thinking about anything else other than what Yeping and Changqing were doing in their dreams, it made the dreams easier and clearer for me to interpret most of it. I thought it was sort of strange how in his dreams as both Yeping and Changqing, he either kept on looking for or reaching out to Zixuan. In the dream Yeping had, he probably had no idea where he was or what was going on, but I'm sure he felt a strong sense of familiarity, especially when he sees Zixuan and goes after her. The thing is, in his dreams she's always being taken away from him. In the first dream he had of her when he was still Yeping, Zixuan held his hand and they both run past memories of their previous life shown in the background; but then Zixuan suddenly disappears and leaves him wondering where she went. In the dream that Changqing had, he sees Zixuan wearing the horse mask, walks up to her and takes it off, just before someone pulls her away from him. Again, she gets taken away and he's left alone, looking for her. So in my opinion, the dreams of him at the Lantern Festival are connected to him and Zixuan's reality of never being able to be together, because the both of them were always being separated from one another. Whenever he thinks he's gotten close to her, she "vanishes" and he "loses" her again (and I'm now referring this to both instances of his dreams and reality). I also put those words in quotation marks because I don't mean for them to be taken literally. Anyhow, the same could also be said about Zixuan "losing" Liufang/Yeping/Changqing every time she also thought things would work out between them. This is actually the usual pattern of their relationship too, in all three lifetimes. At the end when Zixuan and Changqing had to separate, they "lose" each other again, but they didn't really either, because after all they've been through and overcome together, they'll live on in each other's hearts.

All of these are just my interpretations.

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:18 pm

wow..that was really well written (and the mere detail and elaboration of the posts calls for another article to be compiled, heheee yay!) Oh and while we're at it, I added more of your writings to: http://undyinglove.chinesepaladin.org/t ... -from-fans hehe. Hope you don't mind ^_^

I was wondering what you were gonna write for that page! How are you thinking of going about it?


I have no idea how to start. It was supposed to be 'about' their story summarised, but I don't know how to make it sound good without going through so much detail ^^; Plus it's not easy summarising their story when so much goes on.. hm. Wanna volunteer? lol


Ok, now onto my thoughts..

Before I write up another essay lol, let me just say that I don't believe it was Zixuan giving him the dream. I think the reason she knew he was dreaming of her was because he kept saying her name aloud as he was dreaming, and she was sitting right there next to him the whole time. As for whether or not he remembered the dream, I'm not sure about that either.


I forgot about him calling her name, lol. I really need to re-watch it. How many times does the dream actually appear in the course of the entire drama? Was it twice? (Once with YePing, and the second was when Zi Xuan saves Changqing?) Please refresh my memory ^^;

The only reason why I thought Zi Xuan gave Ye Ping the dream was because she looked really confident that he still yearns and loves her. It was as if she was so certain he'll love her again, and this certainty may be derived from her having control of him remembering her (Does this make any sense?) I think it would have been good if the drama showed Zi Xuan sometime after they jumped off the cliff (when Liu fang died and she was saved), something to show what was going through her mind etc. They only show this through narration, and it's somewhat hard to see Zi Xuan feeling devastated and helpless, when the next shot of her meeting Ye Ping- she is smiling with determination and confidence. Yes, it's most likely just her being optimistic and happy now that "Liu Fang" is finally back after a 100 years or so, but somewhere deep down I would think she has some insecurities...(which she doesn't show to him)

But I suppose she is happy with a reason- Ye Ping did go through the wine drinking ordeal for her, which proves somewhere deep down he cared for her. He was showing signs of jealously simply seeing her around other men and flirting with them. This just proves how much Liu Fang loved Zi Xuan, enough for his longing and love for her after a whole reincarnation to remain.

So my point to all this is, I think you're right, I don't think she gave him the dream. When Ye Ping wakes up and we see Zi Xuan looking seductive, it reminded me of the scene where she and Ye Ping first met. She was confident and flirting. I somehow drew those two scenes together and for some reason thought she knew exactly what she was doing and had control over the entire situation literally- thus the dream.


"Michel de Certeau's work, in the latter part of the twentieth century, has compared the procedures common to both mysticism and psychoanalysis, suggesting that the body, far from being ruled by discourse, is itself a symbolic language, and that in both psychoanalysis and mysticism the body is perceived as responsible for a truth of which it is unaware. Thus the body holds the ‘key’ to the ‘truth’ of the ‘space’ represented by the mystical or unconscious. This has caused the modern study of mysticism to focus, like psychoanalysis, on the bodily manifestations of the psyche's or soul's condition in order to understand the ‘truth’ of that condition." -- this exerpt was from http://www.answers.com/topic/mysticism
Changqing/Yeping was unaware of the 'truth' because he couldn't remember his past memories.


Nice quote! I think its very fitting indeed! I never thought about it in such depth- love it..hehe ^_^

So... from what I gathered here, seems to me that deep inside Yeping's heart he has already loved Zixuan (from the love that was left over from his previous life as Liufang), so this was why he couldn't forget about her.


I just wondered how Ye Ping thought of his own illogical actions and what he came up with to justify them. If he doesn't know about the past and doesn't understand where these feelings of lust and helplessness comes from, what's there to keep him sane? Since meeting Zi Xuan, it was like he lost all his own sense of mind =( I kinda felt sorry for him. In the end he finally admitted it was love, and I guess he justified all his feelings to being simply that. Love is illogical and Ye Ping did not know why he loved her but he did. He accepted it and was willing to give everything up for her because this feeling is most important to him. It's his everything and Zi Xuan was all he wanted. We accept this because we know the reasons he loves her and we know her feelings for him are true and genuine.

(On a random note, this whole thing could have gone wrong if Zi Xuan was some brainwashing demoness feeding confusion and lust into his mind, lol.. especially hearing the other ladies saying all their husbands were enchanted by some witch..anywayyysss *cough*)


"I haven’t had the time to feel sadness. [because he doesn't remember her, making it easier to disregard her]
Love has made its way into my breath. [because she reappeared in his life and tried to get him back]
What doesn’t exist, exists at the bottom of the heart. [he was always loving her even though he didn't know it and doesn't remember her]"


Lovelllyy :D Really well put together..*sigh*~

By the way, the last line totally represents my reason as to why Yeping & Changqing dreamed about her.
In the second and third lifetimes, although he couldn't remember her and she didn't exist to him, she exists at the bottom of his heart. He doesn't know but she holds a very special place there (the place in his heart that represents his greatest happiness); however, it's a lonely, forgetful place that can only be touched and slightly recalled whenever Zixuan appears. And so her reappearances triggers him to have those dreams.


That's a really nice way of looking at it (lol, I love this--> '... it's a lonely, forgetful place that can only be touched and slightly recalled whenever Zixuan appears. And so her reappearances triggers him to have those dreams.").

I always associated the line 'What doesn’t exist, exists at the bottom of the heart' as Changqing's feelings for Zi Xuan in the ending as well... The fact no one in the world knows they remember each other, so their love technically 'doesn't exist', but he does know he will always love her from the bottom of his heart.. But you're very right, it applies to him as a whole and YePing/Liu Fang.


When I think about this, it's actually really sad for me because I think I know why he always returns to this place, but it's too hard to explain with words so I won't.

Yeah some things are really hard to put down in words. Would love to know how you felt about it.

You know what slightly confused me about the dreams? The fact LiuFang, Ye Ping and Changqing all looked the same, haha. They're the same person so it was a little confusing figuring out who was really in the dream. For example, in Changqing's dream, he sees himself marching up to Zi Xuan and yelling at her "Who else is in your heart?" But is who he's seeing Ye Ping, or does he see himself? He IS Ye Ping, so I guess to him he sees himself yelling at her.. ahhh I'm not making much sense, lol.

In the dream that Changqing had, he sees Zixuan wearing the horse mask, walks up to her and takes it off, just before someone pulls her away from him.


Alright, I just thought of something (didn't think of this before)- Maybe..just MAYBE in the dream where Changqing takes off the horse mask, it's actually his memories of her from their first life. Liu Fang and Zi Xuan separated for three years back then and the same thing happens, he takes the mask off her face when they see each other. Since most of Changqing's 'dream/flashback' revolved around YePing, it's not hard to believe even memories before then had leaked in. Just speculation. I really need to rewatch this, ehhe.
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:28 pm

I have no idea how to start. It was supposed to be 'about' their story summarised, but I don't know how to make it sound good without going through so much detail ^^; Plus it's not easy summarising their story when so much goes on.. hm. Wanna volunteer? lol


LOL, let me think about it. I think I might have a creative way to write their summary. But I'm not making any promises that I'll do it though, lol.

How many times does the dream actually appear in the course of the entire drama? Was it twice? (Once with YePing, and the second was when Zi Xuan saves Changqing?) Please refresh my memory ^^;


It was three times (however, I am not completely sure about this). Once when he was Yeping, and twice when he was Changqing. The first time Changqing dreams of Zixuan, like you said, was when she saved him, and the third time was after Changqing saved Long Kui so that she could live like a normal person. The third time happens in episode 13; you can watch it here and it begins at around 2:20 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwgSBEsf ... re=related

The only reason why I thought Zi Xuan gave Ye Ping the dream was because she looked really confident that he still yearns and loves her. It was as if she was so certain he'll love her again, and this certainty may be derived from her having control of him remembering her (Does this make any sense?) I think it would have been good if the drama showed Zi Xuan sometime after they jumped off the cliff (when Liu fang died and she was saved), something to show what was going through her mind etc. They only show this through narration, and it's somewhat hard to see Zi Xuan feeling devastated and helpless, when the next shot of her meeting Ye Ping- she is smiling with determination and confidence. Yes, it's most likely just her being optimistic and happy now that "Liu Fang" is finally back after a 100 years or so, but somewhere deep down I would think she has some insecurities...(which she doesn't show to him)


One more reason why I don't believe it was Zixuan giving him any of those dreams was because Changqing was fully capable of dreaming about Zixuan on his own, twice at that. Plus, the dream Yeping had was so cryptic and so many weird and confusing things were happening in it (like how people's dreams are supposed to be: cryptic, weird, and confusing) that I've just never felt like Zixuan would ever give him such an ambiguous dream, or if it *was* Zixuan giving him the dream, why would she give him 'that' kind of dream? Instead, why not give him a dream that'd make some sense? In his dream, Zixuan kept on appearing and disappearing, looking like an expressionless statue, and then disappears again at the end; to me, it's exactly like the kind of dream Yeping would be able to have, not the kind of dream Zixuan would give even if she could.
Another reason why I believe Yeping was capable of having that dream by himself was because in episode 18 when he and Zixuan were at the tavern, he tells her that perhaps he practices the Way because he was destined to enlighten her; but then when Zixuan starts reciting the lines, "In life, in death, or separation, I gave my word. To hold your hands, and grow old together," Yeping started getting teary-eyed. This, I believe, is proof to what I was saying earlier about him having the love for Zixuan that was left over from his previous life as Liufang. Yeping also told Zixuan that every time he sees her, even though he doesn't know the reason, he seems to feel as if he's known her before. So he already had feelings for her deep inside him, which is why I believe he'd at least be able to dream about her.
Besides, I refuse to think that Changqing/Yeping's love and desire for Zixuan wasn't strong enough that Zixuan would actually *need* to cast spells and give him those dreams. It'd just be awful and incredibly absurd if he needed spells casted on him just so he'd be able to dream about her. The producers and creators of the series make tons of references to Changqing and Zixuan's relationship that shows just how deep, unsuperficial, and profound their love is and how it transcends time and space and all that stuff, that it wouldn't make any sense to me if Zixuan would have to give him dreams like he can't dream about her on his own. It wouldn't be real unconditional love that he has for her if she actually needed to give him those dreams.

The only reason why I thought Zi Xuan gave Ye Ping the dream was because she looked really confident that he still yearns and loves her. It was as if she was so certain he'll love her again, and this certainty may be derived from her having control of him remembering her (Does this make any sense?)
I get what you're saying. But I never got the impression that she was really confident about Yeping yearning and loving her. I even went back to rewatch their scenes together just to make sure that I wasn't somehow mistaken about this. Throughout the whole time they were at the tavern together, she was trying so hard to make him remember her again and to get him back that every time when what she did didn't work, she either became angry, frustrated, or sad and would just say things like, "why am I the only one suffering here?" and "I'm the only one who's still devoted".. There were many times during this part that made it clear that she was indeed feeling devasted and helpless. And that line she said of "why am I the only one suffering here" made it pretty clear to me that even though she does pretend to smile and act confidently in front of Yeping at times, she is suffering inside. I don't think she was ever truly confident, I think it was more like she was really hopeful that he'd still remember her or come be with her again. I also never got the impression that Zixuan was so certain he'll love her again. By watching how she looked and acted, it never seemed that way to me. Right before Yeping announced that he'd marry her, she was so heartbroken and crying and in so much pain because all Yeping was willing to do was drink for her and not marry her.

the next shot of her meeting Ye Ping- she is smiling with determination and confidence. Yes, it's most likely just her being optimistic and happy now that "Liu Fang" is finally back after a 100 years or so, but somewhere deep down I would think she has some insecurities...(which she doesn't show to him)
I would assume that when you say the next shot of her meeting Yeping would be when she falls from the tree and he catches her right? Actually, my first impression was that she was smiling like that because it was more like her putting on a facade. Yeah, she was smiling but she also frowned when she broke the tree branch. So that's why I always felt what she did was more of an act. The reason I say this is because the kind of romantic and fanciful display where she plans to fall off a tree and into his arms isn't something that people would naturally or usually do if they weren't trying to put on a show (get what I mean?) If she was going to give it her best and make such a flashy and extravagant appearance, it'd make the most sense for her to smile with determination and confidence. Of course she was also smiling at how cute he was being after she told him not to stare since it's rude and he turns to look away. I also thought it was her way of trying to woo him, along with leaving a good, memorable first impression. She's a seductress after all; she knows how to charm men and make them fall for her, and we all know who else I'm talking about here, lol. She's so smart and clever when it comes to this stuff. But of course I'm sure she was also happy that "Liufang" was finally back. And I agree with you that deep down she definitely did have insecurities too, but Zixuan has never really been the type of woman to show them, except to Shenggu.
I also have to admit that I seriously LOVED that the producers/creators personalized this idea of Zixuan sitting in a tree and made it into her own thing, since she is the Earth mother.

I just wondered how Ye Ping thought of his own illogical actions and what he came up with to justify them. If he doesn't know about the past and doesn't understand where these feelings of lust and helplessness comes from, what's there to keep him sane? Since meeting Zi Xuan, it was like he lost all his own sense of mind =( I kinda felt sorry for him.


I know, I sort of felt bad for him as well. He really did look like he had lost his own sense of mind. But at least he was sane enough to know what he had to do, and that was to give in and marry Zixuan, haha (I'm so mean, lol).

That's a really nice way of looking at it (lol, I love this--> '... it's a lonely, forgetful place that can only be touched and slightly recalled whenever Zixuan appears. And so her reappearances triggers him to have those dreams.").


Thanks, I really love it too, heheh. It went perfectly with the point I was trying to make.
Btw, I feel that I should also mention the reasons why I said that that place in his heart represents his greatest happiness. It was because Changqing had stated a few times throughout the series that Zixuan was the only person who could make him feel things no one else could. Back in episode 17, when Changqing was still Liufang, he told his Taoist master that he didn't care who Zixuan was, saying, "I only know that she can make me cry, and laugh, be happy, and sad. She's the lady whom I miss dearly. She's the only one who makes me feel that my life is meaningful." Then there was another case of him (this time as Changqing) revealing how Zixuan made him felt and that was toward the end of episode 23 when he was going to find Zixuan. He told the Taoist Sect Leader that when he had made up his mind to find Zixuan, he felt a joy that he had never experienced before, and that the feeling couldn't be described with words. -- So this was why I called that place in his heart as one representing his greatest happiness, because Zixuan herself is his greatest happiness.

I always associated the line 'What doesn’t exist, exists at the bottom of the heart' as Changqing's feelings for Zi Xuan in the ending as well... The fact no one in the world knows they remember each other, so their love technically 'doesn't exist', but he does know he will always love her from the bottom of his heart.. But you're very right, it applies to him as a whole and YePing/Liu Fang.


I associate that line with Changqing, Yeping, and Liufang, but in different ways of course. Since all three of the lifetimes are different in many ways, that line can be interpreted and understood on a lot of levels. Everybody has their own interpretations. =]

Alright, I just thought of something (didn't think of this before)- Maybe..just MAYBE in the dream where Changqing takes off the horse mask, it's actually his memories of her from their first life. Liu Fang and Zi Xuan separated for three years back then and the same thing happens, he takes the mask off her face when they see each other. Since most of Changqing's 'dream/flashback' revolved around YePing, it's not hard to believe even memories before then had leaked in. Just speculation. I really need to rewatch this, ehhe.


Oh, I never thought of it that way. I do get what you're saying though, but it's just not how I feel about it lol.

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby xiaoyaoli_lingerli » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:20 pm

such a LONG discussion youre having there! :D :D :D

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:30 pm

xiaoyaoli_lingerli wrote:such a LONG discussion youre having there! :D :D :D


haha of course, that's our duty as fans to keep the love alive ;)
Plus its heaps of fun sharing your thoughts and reading other people's opinion- you should join in too. I really look forward to lovelikethis's posts every day XD

And now I need to write some a reply..will be back.
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby xiaoyaoli_lingerli » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Chibi Jennifer wrote:
xiaoyaoli_lingerli wrote:such a LONG discussion youre having there! :D :D :D


haha of course, that's our duty as fans to keep the love alive ;)
Plus its heaps of fun sharing your thoughts and reading other people's opinion- you should join in too. I really look forward to lovelikethis's posts every day XD

And now I need to write some a reply..will be back.



haha.. dont worry! wait till i finish the drama... im still on episode 6! ha ha im a little slow cause its the start of classes here in the Philippines... hope to watch many episodes on Saturdays.... :oops:



:) :) :)

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:46 pm

LOL, let me think about it. I think I might have a creative way to write their summary. But I'm not making any promises that I'll do it though, lol.


yay, thanks for considering ^_^'


The third time happens in episode 13; you can watch it here and it begins at around 2:20


Thanks for that! oH yes, I remember now, it was the random scene where Jing Tian tells him to sleep ^^;

it's exactly like the kind of dream Yeping would be able to have, not the kind of dream Zixuan would give even if she could.


Very true. I always believed the dreams Changqing had of Zi Xuan were his own, and not from any of Zi Xuan's doing. I was just a bit confused when Ye Ping had the dream and right after he woke up Zi Xuan asked him if he was dreaming about her. It all makes sense now :) I prefer it to be this way anyway, ehehe!

Besides, I refuse to think that Changqing/Yeping's love and desire for Zixuan wasn't strong enough that Zixuan would actually *need* to cast spells and give him those dreams. It'd just be awful and incredibly absurd if he needed spells casted on him just so he'd be able to dream about her.


Completely agree! The whole point of Changqing remembering and seeing those visions was because of the strong feelings he still had for her.. it was just waiting for the right moment to be triggered (her presence)

I take back what I said about the dream earlier I just realised how dumb and wrong it sounds, LOL. In the third life, Zi Xuan intervened to save him and if it wasn't for his memory 'dream' reacting (on its own), he wouldn't have yelled out "Who else is in your heart?" which prompt her to pursue him in the first place.

By watching how she looked and acted, it never seemed that way to me. Right before Yeping announced that he'd marry her, she was so heartbroken and crying and in so much pain because all Yeping was willing to do was drink for her and not marry her.


You're absolutely right about this! I think I have selected memory loss XD *whacks head* I just keep remembering the part where Ye Ping wakes up and she's smiling at him, lol.


Yeah, she was smiling but she also frowned when she broke the tree branch. So that's why I always felt what she did was more of an act. The reason I say this is because the kind of romantic and fanciful display where she plans to fall off a tree and into his arms isn't something that people would naturally or usually do if they weren't trying to put on a show


You leave me speechless. XD

I also thought it was her way of trying to woo him, along with leaving a good, memorable first impression.

I loved this scene, I think she definitely succeeded


I know, I sort of felt bad for him as well. He really did look like he had lost his own sense of mind. But at least he was sane enough to know what he had to do, and that was to give in and marry Zixuan, haha (I'm so mean, lol).



lol! I too just sat there waiting for him to finally get back with her, haha XD I dunno if it's just me but I like seeing Changqing being 'tortured' for hurting her feelings XD.. like the part where they meet after three years and she slaps him. Then of course, there's him feeling helpless and drinking wine because that's the only way he can stop her torturing herself. I thought it was all very intriguing which made me attracted to their story even more.


He told the Taoist Sect Leader that when he had made up his mind to find Zixuan, he felt a joy that he had never experienced before, and that the feeling couldn't be described with words. -- So this was why I called that place in his heart as one representing his greatest happiness, because Zixuan herself is his greatest happiness.


Completely agreee!

When Changqing regained all his memories I was so disappointed he decided to send her away...it was so sad and I felt really bad for Zi Xuan. It's like he finally remembered EVERYTHING, yet it wasn't enough for him to stay with her? I thought the first thing he would do was to hold onto her- or even apologise, but I guess it doesn't work that way. Perhaps a time lag was needed, as there was just tooo much going on his mind and for him to take everything in at once so soon was a ridiculous ask.
However, what followed really made it up, especially all these signs that he truly loved her and that he misses her (e.g when he's drunk and starts yelling out he loves Zi Xuan..it was so cute!!)
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:55 am

yay, thanks for considering ^_^'

Alright, so I wanted to share with you what my initial idea was. Since Changqing and Zixuan's love-story was a phenomenal and timeless tale depicting a deity/goddess's descendant and her mortal lover, incorporated with so many mythological and supernatural elements, I was thinking of telling their story as a poetic-sounding 'mythological legend', as opposed to just writing a plain summary about them. Like what you said though, I don't wanna go into too much detail, but of course I also know not to be too vague either. So what I was planning to do was to divide up their three lifetimes into three separate poems; and the poems will sort of tell the story of what happens in each lifetime, but will transition into each other so that all three poems combined together will tell Changqing and Zixuan's lovestory as a whole.
However, this whole poetry thing is turning out to be a lot harder than I thought lol. I'm still thinking of a good way to write these poems without them sounding corny or too weird.

Anyhow, while I was thinking of better ways to write the poems, I came up with yet another idea of how to go about 'summarizing' their story. This second idea is similar to the poetry idea where I divide the lifetimes into three separate sections (which would also transition into each other) and just narrate each lifetime's story by way of making them sound more fairytale-ish, lol, but also poetic at the same time. I've actually started doing some work on it, and here's what I've written so far (it's not very good; I actually think you write better than me and I'm not kidding either, lol):
~I'll Give a Mask as a Token of Love.. to a Girl I Met in Her Hometown~
*[Once upon a time], on the night of the Lantern Fair, a young man named Liu Fang, and a charismatic young lady called Zi Xuan met. On this wondrous night, the threads of fate led the way and coiled around them as she was telling a story the very first time he sees her. After her storytelling ended, he smiled and went his own way. As young as he was, he was pure and respectful in heart and mind, not wanting anything more than to simply hear this endearing girl's delightful tale. He was never the kind of man to expect anything else. Nor had he expected to ever cross paths with her again. But as Heaven would have it, they did meet again. Their identities were hidden behind masks, and this time.. with their eyes locked together.. he did not go his own way. Instead, they gazed at each other as he seemed unable to stop staring into the windows of her soul. It's true she was a girl with a gorgeous face. But the mask proved that it wasn't such beauty that captivated his heart. It was inner beauty, and he loved her for it.

I don't want to use the 'once upon a time' line; it doesn't go with Chinese mythology. What would be a better line to use that'd make it sound like a Chinese 'fairytale'? This was just to show you what I had in mind. It's obviously not finished yet. I still need to write about the time they spend together and their little cliff-diving experience. But yeah, I won't blame you if you don't like it, lol 'cause honestly, I don't even know how much I myself like it. I need to find better word choices and also structure some sentences differently. I'm my own worst critic, and this was just a pathetic attempt of me trying to sound 'poetic' while 'summarizing' their first lifetime together LOL. Care to give me any suggestions on what you think would be or sound better and not so awkward?

You're absolutely right about this! I think I have selected memory loss XD *whacks head* I just keep remembering the part where Ye Ping wakes up and she's smiling at him, lol.

lol it's okay, we all get that every now and then.

You leave me speechless. XD

I was SO worried that I wasn't being clear enough. I kept wondering if I should write more or if you already got the picture and I was just babbling on too much, lol.

I think she definitely succeeded

Me too. It also helped to see this because they showed the flashback of him carrying her in his arms (when she fell from the tree) during the scene of where the narrator said "Since their first meeting, his heart was already with Zixuan" and Yeping looked like he was losing his mind over it, hehehe.

lol! I too just sat there waiting for him to finally get back with her, haha XD I dunno if it's just me but I like seeing Changqing being 'tortured' for hurting her feelings XD.. like the part where they meet after three years and she slaps him. Then of course, there's him feeling helpless and drinking wine because that's the only way he can stop her torturing herself. I thought it was all very intriguing which made me attracted to their story even more.

LOL, well I'm not much for that kind of 'torture'... the only kind of 'torture' that I really enjoyed seeing was what I was talking about earlier about Yeping looking like he was losing his mind over Zixuan and the times of how she always haunted Changqing's dreams and he'd wake up breathing so hard, lol. I loved those scenes because they proved just how strong of a hold Zixuan had on him.

When Changqing regained all his memories I was so disappointed he decided to send her away...it was so sad and I felt really bad for Zi Xuan. It's like he finally remembered EVERYTHING, yet it wasn't enough for him to stay with her? I thought the first thing he would do was to hold onto her- or even apologise, but I guess it doesn't work that way. Perhaps a time lag was needed, as there was just tooo much going on his mind and for him to take everything in at once so soon was a ridiculous ask. However, what followed really made it up, especially all these signs that he truly loved her and that he misses her (e.g when he's drunk and starts yelling out he loves Zi Xuan..it was so cute!!)

I was also disappointed that he sent her away. After regaining all of his memories, I wasn't really sure what he'd do. On one hand, I thought he would have apologized to Zixuan and tell her he'd stay with her again; but on the other hand, even though I thought that, I also felt like it wouldn't be realistic of him (because of the same reason you stated).

Ok, now this is sort of off-topic, but do you know where I could get the music piece that plays during the part where Yeping announces he'll marry Zixuan? The music is so BEAUTIFUL. I checked and it's not in the OST, which totally bites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM_Tmtl20cM

It also plays in episode 34 at 6:08 (the music matches so perfectly with this particular scene). Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kDQJOdro6A

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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby Chibi Jennifer » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:54 am

haha that was so sweet! I think you're doing an AMAZING job!! Really like your idea using something pretty and poetic! You captured Liu Fang's character really well :) I can't wait to see the final version it's gonna be mad! I can't really think of any suggestions at the moment..


I don't want to use the 'once upon a time' line; it doesn't go with Chinese mythology. What would be a better line to use that'd make it sound like a Chinese 'fairytale'?


hmm..it's kinda tricky cause we don't really have an estimated time period when this occurred. "200 years ago?" lol, that sounds weird...plus it wasn't really 200 years ago from now.. and also 200 years was when Zi Xuan was born. Ok, let's ditch that idea.


Ok, now this is sort of off-topic, but do you know where I could get the music piece that plays during the part where Yeping announces he'll marry Zixuan? The music is so BEAUTIFUL. I checked and it's not in the OST, which totally bites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM_Tmtl20cM


Ah, that is a pretty piece of music!! Sadly, I dunno where I'd be able to get that :( It's definitely not included in the OST..... >.<
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Re: Chang Qing & Zi Xuan

Postby lovelikethis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:22 pm

Hey there, sorry it took me longer to get back to you. I had to take some time off to think about how I really wanted to write their summary. I decided that my other ideas were probably too unusual or strange, and since you've already done a great job outlining their whole story in the 'Changqing & Zi Xuan Screen Captures/Moments' section of your fanlisting, I thought it best to just write a real summary about Changqing and Zixuan instead.
So here it is:

The Story
Xu Changqing and Zi Xuan's romantic relationship is the main backstory to Chinese Paladin III. Their love endured for three lifetimes, lasting approximately 200 years. Destined to become an immortal, Xu Changqing dedicated his life to studying Taoism and becoming a Taoist priest in all three lifetimes. However, in his first two lifetimes as Liu Fang and Lin Yeping, he failed because of his choice to resume secular life and be together with Zi Xuan. He was mortal, a human, whereas Zi Xuan was the descendant of the goddess Nuwa. As Nuwa's descendant, Zi Xuan is immortal and able to retain her youthful looks. For all three lifetimes, her passionate and undying love for Changqing never wavered; and although Liu Fang had been reincarnated as Lin Yeping and Xu Changqing, his love for Zi Xuan never changed and he was still able to maintain his strong feelings for her. In Changqing's third and last lifetime, Zi Xuan gains the courage to sever all ties with him and let him go, so that he can train properly as a priest to attain enlightenment and be forever freed from mortal sufferings.
-----

You can change, edit, add, and do whatever you feel would be better to it.


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